In your own language or in your own language. The State Duma wants to oblige all speakers to study national languages. Parliamentarians argue that in this way, on the one hand, Russians will not be forced to learn a foreign language, on the other hand, the continuity of education in national dialects will be preserved. What do our experts think? Participants of the discussion: Head of the Center for Ethnocultural Strategy of Education of the Federal Institute for the Development of Education, Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences Olga Artyomenko, Deputy Chairman of the Council of teips of the Ingush people Batyr Bogatyrev.
Oksana Galkevich: Well, now our big topic, dear friends. We will talk until the end of this hour, please join.
In the State Duma, work continues to boil even in summer, despite the warm season, and a bill on the study of native languages of peoples is being prepared for the second reading. Russian Federation And state languages national republics. This issue of teaching, learning national languages in the last year again came into the focus of public attention after, if you remember how in Tatarstan a group of parents expressed their dissatisfaction with the fact that the teaching of the Tatar language has become almost mandatory in the republic, in their opinion, for all children, sometimes even, according to them, to the detriment of the hours of the all-Russian language, the language of interethnic communication, the Russian language. The issue is complex, our country is large, multinational, but we will discuss this topic with you today.
Vitaly Mlechin: Well, in the bill, which is now in the State Duma, among others, an amendment has appeared that native speakers will have to learn the language without fail. This was not the case in the first reading, on the contrary, the study of national languages should have been mandatory according to the first version of the bill. In this regard, let's find out your opinion, do you think it is necessary to learn national languages, or is it optional? Send answers to our short number for SMS-messages 3443, the first letters as always "OTP".
Oksana Galkevich: How to strike a balance, how to preserve national languages? This is a very important task. Linguists in our country number 150 different languages, while 98% of the population speaks Russian in Russia, but in the language, for example, Negidals, little people living on Rheme Cupid on Far East, says only about 400 people. At the same time, according to UNESCO, more than 135 national languages of our country are in danger, 49 of them are on the verge of extinction, 49 languages.
Vitaly Mlechin: Yes. Right now on your screens is a map of our country, on which some nationalities are marked. I am sure that the vast majority of our fellow citizens have never even heard of these names. Here the Negidals, as Oksana has already said, live in the north of the Khabarovsk Territory, the Itelmens - in the Kamchatka Territory, the Enets - on the eastern bank of the lower reaches of the Yenisei, the Aguls are the people of the central part of the southeast of Dagestan. It is clear that those people who live in these regions have probably once heard about their neighbors who speak such languages, it is obvious that the vast majority, in general, do not know this.
Oksana Galkevich: We have listed only a few, dear friends, because I remind you that 49 languages are on the verge of extinction, according to UNESCO. So, the study of national languages in Russian schools is the topic of this hour. Your opinion is very important to us, so please call us, we are working live, the phone is on your screen, it is free. Write to us on our SMS portal and take part in our survey, at the end of this hour we will sum up the results.
Vitaly Mlechin: Well, right now it's time to introduce our guests: this is Olga Artemenko, head of the Center for Ethnocultural Education Strategy of the Federal Institute for the Development of Education, corresponding member Russian Academy Natural Sciences, and Batyr Bogatyrev, Deputy Chairman of the Council of Teips of the Ingush people. Good evening.
Oksana Galkevich: Good evening, Olga Ivanovna, Batyr Aboevich.
Vitaly Mlechin: Thank you very much for visiting us today.
Oksana Galkevich: Dear guests, let's start with your position. Look, there is no certainty even in this draft law, which is now in the State Duma, is already being prepared for the second reading. In the first version of the document there was a study at will, in the second version of the document there are already other amendments, that according to the nationality, the national language should be mandatory for learning. What is your position? Olga Ivanovna, let's start with you as a lady.
Olga Artemenko: Wonderful, with the ladies, that's what they call it from the ladies. First of all, I want to say that where you saw the second version of the law is…
Oksana Galkevich: Amendments and developments appeared for the second reading.
Olga Artemenko: So you just said that you are in the second version of the law, your words.
Oksana Galkevich: bill.
Olga Artemenko: Okay, bill. So no one has yet seen the second version of the bill. There was only not even a resolution, but this document is called the resolution of the State Duma, signed by Volodin. This is the document that was discussed, this is the document that went to the government of the Russian Federation, this document is optional, and the document that declares a request to the government is the first thing I would like to talk about.
The second thing I would like to say is that before July 20, proposals are being collected for a draft law on the study of languages from among the languages of the peoples of Russia. This is very correct terminology according to the law on education. Therefore, what will be the second version of the draft law, still, in my opinion, no one knows. That's why…
Oksana Galkevich: Olga Ivanovna, we talked about ...
Olga Artemenko: Wait a minute...
Oksana Galkevich:… that there was an amendment. It’s just that you are correcting me, I’m sorry, I also have to retort you, we didn’t say anything wrong, I’m sorry.
Olga Artemenko: I explain that you said very wrong, because you claim that the second version formulates the obligation to study ...
Oksana Galkevich: The bill is being prepared for the second reading, Olga Ivanovna, that's what we said.
Olga Artemenko: Wonderful. And you said that this draft law provides for the compulsory study of languages.
Oksana Galkevich: If a person belongs to the nationality of that national language.
Olga Artemenko: Where did you get it from?
Oksana Galkevich: We took it from open sources, from the same media.
Olga Artemenko: So I must say that, unfortunately, there is a lot of incorrect information, distorted information in open sources ...
Vitaly Mlechin: Well, then let's tell you how it is right, let's move on to this.
Olga Artemenko: I cannot say which is right, because when we see the draft of this law in the second reading, then you and I will talk about which is right.
Oksana Galkevich: All right, Olga Ivanovna, this will be the second reading of this bill.
Olga Artemenko: Yes.
Oksana Galkevich: We ask your position on this issue, what is your position? Not the bill, not the first reading, not the second, not what it will be like by the third reading.
Olga Artemenko: Amazing.
Oksana Galkevich: your position.
Olga Artemenko: So my position. We have been engaged in language education policy for a long time, and our position is that in the education system it is necessary to take into account the status, the constitutional status of languages. And this status, respectively, is the state language of the Russian Federation, the state language of the republics of the Russian Federation, native language, including Russian in native status. And taking into account the status of languages, accordingly, it is necessary to develop various models of schools, or better to say, various models for organizing educational activities in general educational institutions, in order to properly organize educational activities, taking into account the language situation, taking into account the level of language proficiency. This, you see, is a process that must be variable depending on the conditions in order to really create conditions for meeting ethno-linguistic educational needs. But my position, and I have repeatedly voiced it, in my opinion, even in your audience...
Oksana Galkevich: We may now have a different audience in front of the TV, repeat.
Olga Artemenko: It lies in the fact that there was an instruction from the President of the Russian Federation. For me, the president is a person who, once he has given instructions, means that we need to think about how to implement this instruction so that there is no conflict situations, that's all. This is my position, civil position.
Oksana Galkevich: Repeat once again what the president instructed, and your own civil position in this regard.
Olga Artemenko: And, therefore, the president instructed the following: the study of native languages from among the languages of the peoples of Russia and the state languages of the republics of the Russian Federation should be on a voluntary basis at the request of parents, legal representatives.
Vitaly Mlechin: On a voluntary basis, okay, I understand, thank you very much.
Oksana Galkevich: Batyr Aboevich, your position.
Vitaly Mlechin: How do you think?
Batyr Bogatyrev: As a matter of fact, I would like to start with the very amendment that Olga Ivanovna mentioned. This is the very amendment that was made in a timely manner, I think so. She pretty much slowed down the pace, such a heat of passion on the Internet. That is, at first, as soon as this bill was announced, it produced such a boom, let's say, and in national republics who perceived this as an encroachment on their culture, language, what follows. And in principle, if you look closely, you can consider that this is, to some extent, an encroachment.
But in principle, I personally am far from throwing myself into some sort of defense without having studied what is being offered. Having studied this issue more closely and then, while we were getting to know each other, let's say, at the level social movement, in which I am a member, this amendment appeared. Just one of the initiators of this bill was initially a Chechen deputy. Then he withdrew in principle from this participation and already made some amendment of his own, taking into account that for native speakers, the study of this language (the native language, in principle) should be mandatory.
Oksana Galkevich: That is, let's explain in a simpler way: if you are a Chechen, your language is Chechen; if you are Ingush, then it is Ingush; if you are a Tatar, then a Tatar ...
Batyr Bogatyrev: Quite right.
Oksana Galkevich:…should be obligatory for you to study, to teach in your school where you study.
Batyr Bogatyrev: Quite right.
Oksana Galkevich: Buryat, Kalmyk, Yakut.
Batyr Bogatyrev: Yes, in principle there is nothing wrong with this.
Oksana Galkevich: We are also talking about large nationalities, but how if this is a small nationality? How to deal with it?
Batyr Bogatyrev: Here are the small nationalities... You said about 49...
Oksana Galkevich:…which are on the verge of extinction.
Batyr Bogatyrev: Of course, I am very sorry, this is a very unfortunate fact, given, for example, how ... If India, in principle ... There is some kind of analogy between India and our country, they rely on the teachings of which leaders who stood at the origins of something, their political life, the same Jawaharlal Nehru, who said: "We are rich in our diversity, unity in diversity." So why not approach this issue?
Language is, in principle, a living substance, it needs to be cultivated, it is able to grow and grows like crystals. When the growth of these crystals is limited, of course, they crack and crumble into some incomprehensible fragments. Actually, the danger ... I mean to cultivate these languages, to give them opportunities, even if, as Tarkovsky once said, the film, he was asked: "And if there are only 8 people in your hall at the screening, at the premiere of the film?" - "So I made a film for 8 people."
Vitaly Mlechin: If we are talking about whether it is obligatory or optional, is it necessary to oblige people to learn their national language? This question generally arises because if you do not oblige, then no one will teach, that is, people themselves do not want to speak the national language?
Olga Artemenko: No, you're not using this terminology at all, sorry, you understand. And in general, unfortunately, when the presidential order was issued, there was simply false information and interpretation of this order in general, firstly, and the draft law, secondly. And I'll explain why. Because... Why is clear, I will explain what was the false interpretation. Immediately there was information that the language would be studied on an optional basis under this draft law, which was not envisaged, because the main educational program has two parts. The second part of the main educational program is also the same full-fledged subjects, and the federal state education system is being developed for these subjects in the same way. educational standard, this is not an elective, it is a full-fledged subject, firstly, in accordance with the draft law that was registered.
And secondly, I want to say that you need to understand the legal norms and the educational policy that is regulated by these legislative norms. In our legislative norm, the concept of "mandatory" is used only three times. This is the Constitution of the Russian Federation, I always read it out on purpose so that there will be no later talk that the wrong interpretation ...
Vitaly Mlechin: Olga Ivanovna, I'm sorry, you don't answer my question...
Olga Artemenko: Wait a minute, I'm just answering your question about commitment, you know? We do not even have to just study, it is the parents who ensure that their children receive basic education.
Vitaly Mlechin: I understand, thank you very much.
Do you think that if you do not insist that children learn their national language, will such a desire arise on its own?
Batyr Bogatyrev: It will arise in the event that the beauty of his own language is correctly presented to him.
Olga Artemenko: Right.
Batyr Bogatyrev: And in order to present the child or his parents, but mostly the parents are to blame here, I think if they try to free him from studying because he is wasting like ...
Oksana Galkevich: Your native language, right?
Batyr Bogatyrev: Yes. There are such moments, they still occur today. That is, on the spot, this should already be a state program, I think: the native language, the language of that culture should be cultivated, should be supported at the state level.
That is, let's say, in our case - now I am far from taking all this and projecting the Ingush problem purely on all regions - in particular, I will tell you about my problem. All the people whom, let's say, I personally know, maybe, or somewhere on local television came across their opinion or in the press, who are against, say they don't want to, it's better if my child devotes an extra half an hour to studying English or that or mathematics. This person, these parents are completely unfamiliar in their native language with either poetry, or prose, or the classics that exist today, but they exist in every nation, for example, from the same poetry Jamaldin Yandiev, Ali Khashagulgov, these are the people who who, with simple, most everyday words, composed such stanzas, from which goosebumps. That is, they are unfamiliar with this poetry, therefore they are so catchy, so light, frivolous, I am not afraid of this word ...
Oksana Galkevich: Well, maybe not flashy, maybe this is not always an easy decision, Batyr Aboevich. The fact is that now the program is very difficult, the children really have a very big load, and very often parents have to make a serious choice, this is far from always connected with the study of the national mother tongue, they have to give up any additional classes in different subjects. True, children are very busy, and especially in high school.
Batyr Bogatyrev: I completely agree with you, but there is one more point that… At this stage, how is this language presented, how is this language cultivated, how does it exist in the same branches of the State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company, let's say? That is, I watch national television, I basically have a good command, I speak both Russian and my native language at a good level. You know, I understand Russian more than my own, which is pouring from the TV screen, it is very difficult for me to understand, I cannot make out many words.
Oksana Galkevich: Let me remind you simply, if we step aside a little, back to the events that, in fact, began such a wide discussion of the study and teaching of national languages, we remember the case in Tatarstan when people even went to rallies there. But there the problem was somewhat different. If you remember, the parents there were dissatisfied with this, who themselves are not Tatars by nationality, in general, do not belong to the main nationality of this republic. The question is what to do with people who in Ingushetia, for example, are not Ingush, here they are of any other nationality, our country is huge, or in Buryatia, or in some other national republic, do not belong to the bulk of this national republic, - what do you think they should do with learning the language of this republic?
Batyr Bogatyrev: If we compare two periods, Soviet period…
Oksana Galkevich: Here you live in this environment, you are among these people somehow after all ...
Batyr Bogatyrev: The point is that in Soviet time, in the Soviet educational system, for example, in the high-mountainous remote villages there were only textbooks; for some lowland schools, where there are already some mixed nationalities ...
Oksana Galkevich: The classes are mixed, the representation is different.
Batyr Bogatyrev: Yes, there have already been others. And in the case when mixed classes (both Armenians and Russians, many nationalities lived there, sometimes up to two dozen), there was not even an obligation, for example, the Ingush language, Ingush children, and then they went at will. That is, there was no such thing, someone gave the command ...
Olga Artemenko: In general, the term "mandatory" was not used, was not used and is unacceptable to use, which is what I'm talking about.
Batyr Bogatyrev: Quite right. today the term has come into existence and a problem has arisen.
Olga Artemenko: Quite right.
Batyr Bogatyrev: Somehow they dug it up, and it turned out that someone stood up with hostility.
Olga Artemenko: There is a conflict, right.
Batyr Bogatyrev: Can not be so.
Olga Artemenko: That's why I'm telling you that in general you need to be very careful about the terminology and not to use this term especially on the air, it's unacceptable.
Oksana Galkevich: Okay, study at will. Do I need to do some work with my parents...
Olga Artemenko: You know, not by choice. You see, this is all very correct now, a colleague said, the problem of motivation is a very serious problem, it needs to be dealt with, no one is dealing with it - with parents, with children, and so on. I tested the guys in almost all our republics, 10-11th grades, from 15 to 18% of the guys would like to build their own professional activity on the basis of their native language, that is, using their native language. These guys are special, we in the education system should not force everyone, oblige and so on, but work variably, as I told you, educational plans, educational programs, all this should be varied, taking into account the language situation, taking into account language proficiency, taking into account the motive and needs of the children. If we create a path for these guys in their development using their native language at school, and then in universities…
For 10 years I have been talking about the fact that in 2013 we introduced an amendment to the law "On Education", allowing children to take their native language in grade 11 and native literature at will, by choice. We have two compulsory USE and any elective exams. So we introduced, gave the right to take the native language and native literature to the guys who would like to do this, but the subject was obliged to develop all the materials on the basis of which the child, the student goes and takes this subject. If he passed the language in the 11th grade in the status of his native language, this is not an easy problem, it needs to be discussed here for another 2 hours, then when entering the philological faculty you want Japanese, you want Chinese, you want Finnish, any language for philology, he must have a plus 10-15 points. This is the strongest motive for both parents and children, in order to develop this native language later.
Oksana Galkevich: To know your native language and your trajectory to build some kind of career.
Olga Artemenko: It will be four-lingual, you understand? He just needs to learn languages. And this is the path we must choose. Because UNESCO statistics, I'm sorry, I know it very well, it doesn't quite apply to the Russian Federation, and I'll explain why. There, by the way, all the languages of the Russian Federation are on the verge of extinction, except for Russian, to be serious. We in Dagestan have non-written languages that function in everyday life, which came to us from the 2nd century BC and function in everyday life, did not disappear, did not die. So far no one can determine the vitality of a language, no one can predict the vitality of a language, do you understand? So this is pure politics.
Oksana Galkevich: That is, the UNESCO methodology: if a language does not have a written language, is it on the verge of extinction?
Olga Artemenko: No, why? Not necessary.
Oksana Galkevich: I'm trying to find out, Olga Ivanovna, I'm checking with you.
Olga Artemenko: No, no, the methodology of UNESCO's policy is that many languages, in particular, the languages of the Russian Federation, may disappear, that's the statistics.
Oksana Galkevich: No, why, how do they explain it, what reasons do they give?
Olga Artemenko: Nobody can explain this. Why? Because the vitality of the language, I just said, no one can predict.
Oksana Galkevich: Fine.
Vitaly Mlechin: All clear.
Oksana Galkevich: Calls that...
Olga Artemenko: There are different scientific positions, but we will not discuss here.
Vitaly Mlechin: Thank you.
Andrey from Kabardino-Balkaria, hello, you are on the air, please speak.
Viewer: Hello.
Oksana Galkevich: Andrey, hello.
Vitaly Mlechin: We are listening to you.
Viewer: Hello. I am very pleased to see you, I am very glad that I got through to you.
Oksana Galkevich: And we are happy too.
Viewer: About languages. I agree with your guest in what sense? National languages can simply disappear, even the locals who are supposed to speak them simply do not know them. And for example, those people who are of a different nationality, for example, Russians, in fact, many know this language, many do not know this language. But I think that it should be optional at school, if desired. And those people who directly live in this or that republic, they owe it to their national language, it is precisely those nations (for example, Chechens, Ingush, Kabardians, Balkars, Tatars) who are obliged to know their language. Sometimes they don’t even know it well themselves, but how can they give training to others if they don’t know it themselves? Because I watched the program and saw how hard it is for them even to have their own language. And even more so if it is still imposed, specifically obligated, and so we have a lot of problems in school education ...
Oksana Galkevich: Andrei, but after all, trained people are engaged in teaching, they somehow receive a special pedagogical education.
Viewer: You know, I can argue with that. If we now oblige all this to be introduced in our, for example, republic, then I give a guarantee that there will be very few specialists in these languages.
Let's make another call: Krasnodar region, Albina is in touch. Albina, hello.
Vitaly Mlechin: Hello Albina.
Viewer: Hello.
Vitaly Mlechin: Please speak up, we are listening.
Oksana Galkevich: Listen to you, Albina.
Viewer: Yes. Here I am, you know, now I was listening and talking. Muslims teach children from childhood. Even if there is an exam, as they said, it is better to give the child the exam according to Muslim rules than history, for example, the child will pass better.
Oksana Galkevich: Albina, we are not talking about religious education now.
Vitaly Mlechin: Yes, I did not really understand what the connection is.
Oksana Galkevich: We are now talking about the study of national languages in our country.
Olga Artemenko: Languages from among the languages of the peoples of Russia.
Viewer: I understand you. The fact is that everything has been going on with us since childhood. Even the kids who grew up in this, it's easier for them, it needs to be taught. And which children do not know, for example, which Muslims have not taught, will know.
Vitaly Mlechin: Clearly, Albina, thank you very much for calling, although it is not very clear with Muslims.
Oksana Galkevich: Well, we have an extraordinary revival on the portal, in fact, it will even be interesting at the end of this hour to see what the results will be. Our viewers express their opinions very differently: someone writes, for example, that he has lived in Uzbekistan for many years and, despite the fact that he is an ethnic Russian, he understands the language, is able to communicate at the everyday level with the inhabitants of Uzbekistan, with Uzbeks. You know, for example, we have a presenter at OTR, a girl who has recently been working with us, from Yakutia, she speaks excellent Russian. She talked about the experience of teaching national languages in the Republic of Yakutia.
Olga Artemenko: I know.
Oksana Galkevich: And I think he's remarkably balanced. That is, there are separate Yakut classes; if, as you say, the guys want to devote themselves to learning the national language, they need it to continue their future careers, there are classes with optional teaching of the Yakut language; but with this one, sorry, I’ll say “mandatory” teaching here, because the children chose this Yakut class, where teaching of subjects, including, is in the language.
Olga Artemenko: Well, it's better to say not mandatory, but ...
Oksana Galkevich: Children make their choice with the help of their parents.
Olga Artemenko: Right, absolutely right, yes.
Batyr Bogatyrev: By the way, it brings you closer.
Oksana Galkevich: That is the most balanced.
Olga Artemenko: That is, the variability of use, taking into account the interests of both parents and the child. And not only Yakutia, Crimea has a great experience, we need to study it, they work great with parents there, they organize various classes in Crimean Tatar, Ukrainian, Russian.
Oksana Galkevich: And what then is the complexity of this, sorry? Why did this question then suddenly become so acute at some point?
Olga Artemenko: You are asking the right question here...
Batyr Bogatyrev: Yes, absolutely right.
Olga Artemenko: Because I emphasized to you that very false information went through the draft law. And I'm just ashamed of the fact that in the Russian Federation, this is how the interpretation of this law was built, you understand, and purposefully, I even know which subject was involved in this. I got publications where I simply exposed these people.
Batyr Bogatyrev: Just the kindest message of the president, who had the purest thoughts, the best intentions, somewhere further, the farther he went to the regions, he was already beginning to take some form.
Olga Artemenko: While relying on the law, yes.
Batyr Bogatyrev: And accordingly, here they have already rushed to implement, as it were, and hastened with this bill, it is rather damp, its first version is damp.
Olga Artemenko: He was interpreted badly, incorrectly.
Batyr Bogatyrev: Maybe I do.
Olga Artemenko: There, in Article 44, there was an enumeration, that is, there was the possibility of organizing educational activities within the framework of the part formed by the participants in the educational process, this is what we just talked about, variability taking into account interests, and so on, on the one hand. And on the other hand, according to Article 44, it was possible to take additional hours, where there are circles, electives, and the native language was entered there, that is, it was possible to take in the native language at the expense of additional hours. And they began to interpret this as an optional study of the native language.
Oksana Galkevich: You know, here Aina Vinokurova, our presenter from Yakutia, also spoke about the fact that in Yakutia, work is underway with the parent community to introduce, so to speak, children of other nationalities to the study of spoken Yakut language.
Batyr Bogatyrev: Local language, yes.
Oksana Galkevich: Well, because you live in this environment, you must understand these people, their traditions, their language.
Olga Artemenko: Yes.
Oksana Galkevich: At least on some entry level, this is right.
Batyr Bogatyrev: Again, on a voluntary basis.
Olga Artemenko: Again, look, taking into account the motive, you organize circles, motivate, give a letter to the best developments, and so on, conduct KVN taking into account, with embedding events in languages, that is, a lot of all kinds of events that motivate a child to participate, get an additional diploma , receive some additional gift and so on. But is it necessary to plant everyone?
Oksana Galkevich: Olga Ivanovna, and who should be involved in this, the creation of this motivational field?
Olga Artemenko: Great question.
Oksana Galkevich: Should the Ministry of Education of the Republic deal with this?
Olga Artemenko: Of course not.
Oksana Galkevich: Who? School?
Olga Artemenko: Basically, this is a school.
Oksana Galkevich: The school itself.
Olga Artemenko: The municipality, the school by law, is the level of the school, and the municipality is obliged to help with funding, various other assistance. Businessmen can provide, boards of trustees should be created, all these events should be organized through these boards of trustees.
Oksana Galkevich: That is, in fact, this is such a big civil work of civil society., Yes?
Olga Artemenko: Yes.
Oksana Galkevich: I propose now to watch two short stories from Chuvashia and Tatarstan, dear friends. Let's see how they relate to the study of the national language, the native language for someone, for someone who is not native. Attention to the screen, then we will discuss.
Oksana Galkevich: And here is very interesting. We have now watched the plot, in particular, the last part from Tatarstan. Olga Ivanovna, you said that this school principal is very intelligent.
Olga Artemenko: Yes.
Oksana Galkevich: But nevertheless, he takes a position that you do not support.
Olga Artemenko: Sorry, I personally ... No, no, I talked with him about his organization of the educational process. A very smart, intelligent director, politically knows where to say what, do you understand? When teachers of the Russian language were fired in the same Tatarstan, everyone was silent, they were fired en masse. And he openly told me: "Yes, I think it's wrong." Then why now... I also think that it was unacceptable to fire teachers of the Tatar language, unacceptable. So, it was necessary simply not to drive this wave, which the authorities of the Republic of Tatarstan are now supporting these processes, because the interpretation of what is happening and the interpretation of what is happening is false, the message itself is false. Nobody forces...
You see, people do not understand that there is a state school, that this state school receives an order from the state. And this part of the subjects that they study ... By the way, you don’t have to study them, you can study at home, then come and take it externally, no one forces you by law, understand? You can not go to a Russian school at all, go to a school where there is a diploma from another state (Turkey, please, England), get that diploma, go there and work there. In general, you can, without getting an education, now register an individual entrepreneurship, and as an individual entrepreneur no one will ask you what education you have, you understand my idea, right?
Oksana Galkevich: We will still encourage people to learn somehow, to get an education in state standards to receive certificates.
Olga Artemenko: Here. And if you want to study in this state, get an education and then build your career, no one obliges you, you just understand what you have to get in order to build your career, you can get it in different ways. What happens next? From the side of the state, an order for what items? As a state, I understand that my economic development, my state depends on the level of knowledge of what subjects? - mathematics, physics, Russian language. At the same time, there is already competition between Russian and English, so we are introducing it, right?
Oksana Galkevich: Wait, but from the point of view of the stability of the state, its development, national languages are also needed.
Olga Artemenko: It's different, now, wait. From point of view interethnic harmony, which is why I emphasize that this is a political aspect, and our task is to correctly interpret what we have just heard, and this is pure politics, aimed not at interethnic harmony, but at conflicts, and it is stimulated, I see it, by the State Council of the Republic. I wrote twice about how this state council is being held and what is the interpretation of this draft law, you understand? This is a false message to the very content of the draft law, which leads to such results, as we can see, unacceptable.
Oksana Galkevich: Well, Olga Ivanovna, different articles of different laws, including the Constitution, are subject to different interpretations, so we have the Constitutional Court, the Supreme Court…
Olga Artemenko: Understand, you just said yourself that interethnic harmony. It's a subtle thing...
Oksana Galkevich: Very.
Olga Artemenko:... which does not need to be stimulated, you understand, and does not need to be set on fire.
Oksana Galkevich: No, it is not necessary to set it on fire, but you and I, you understand, cannot assert that interethnic harmony, some moments are understood by everyone in the same way.
Olga Artemenko: Wait a minute...
Oksana Galkevich: Excuse me, can I at least finish the thought?
Olga Artemenko: No, it's understandable, but when the State Council holds its meeting, you understand, it is posted on the Internet and everyone watches it and understands that this is the truth, but in fact it is not the truth, then this is, excuse me. That's why I say, these are very serious things. And our task is at our level, that's why I came to you, I generally thought whether to go to you, this is my second visit, you understand? But I consider it my duty to convey to the minds of the listeners that the federals are not doing enough, that it is necessary to very correctly, very calmly interpret those draft laws to which they are aimed, and they are really aimed at creating conditions for satisfying these educational needs, for the formation of motives in children.
It is really necessary to preserve native languages, it is necessary. I can tell you that we have a deterioration in the state of both the Russian language and our native languages, but with native languages it is much worse than with the Russian language, of course. I don't see schools in literary languages. In Soviet times, we created literary languages, created literature, Komi is a magnificent, beautiful language, and there is not a single school where this language is taught, do you understand? Udmurtia - I don't see schools; in Dagestan, I see only one Avar school in the Avar language, and there were schools, excuse me, in almost all written languages.
Oksana Galkevich: Olga Ivanovna, but this is probably a difficult task, including in the financial sense? - train specialists, maintain...
Olga Artemenko: No.
Oksana Galkevich: No?
Olga Artemenko: I don't agree with you.
Oksana Galkevich: I'm not expressing a position, I'm asking a question, maybe it's difficult, I ask, Olga Ivanovna.
Olga Artemenko: And I say that I don’t agree, it’s not difficult, you understand?
Oksana Galkevich: Fine.
Olga Artemenko: It can't be hard, I'll explain why. From 1992 to perhaps 2012, new law in 2012, right? A school in the native language of instruction, at least an elementary school, textbooks in native languages are completely within the competence of the subject, completely within the competence of the subject. Moreover, subsidies are allocated for the publication of textbooks in native languages, I saw these materials in the Duma, do you understand what I'm talking about?
Oksana Galkevich: Does it work, this law?
Olga Artemenko: No, this is not a law, what law?
Oksana Galkevich: Well, the funding is coming.
Olga Artemenko: Well, there was, there was subsidizing, I saw these materials in the Duma with my own eyes, you understand? This means that everything that happens at school in their native language is on the conscience of the subject. Why did they disappear? They will now tell you: "Here is the optimization of the school network" - nothing like that. This is the optimization of the school network why did it happen? Why did national schools - the old name, it's better to say "schools in the native language of instruction", at least the primary - began to switch to Russian? Why? Because the math textbook for elementary school No. The Soviet Union ended and we did nothing for these textbooks. Someone managed to translate Moro, someone, several republics, and everyone else did not care. The textbook on the world around was translated, done? - did not do. And how am I, the director, going to organize now? I am fully responsible for the organization of the educational process. Therefore, I take a textbook in Russian.
Oksana Galkevich: You see, this is...
Olga Artemenko: Listen, I returned from Khanty-Mansiysk, I saw excellent developments in labor, singing, physical education, I can teach these lessons in my native languages, I create a language environment, the most important fact.
Vitaly Mlechin: Let's find out what Dmitry from Omsk thinks, he got through to us, we need to listen to our viewers.
Olga Artemenko: I understand.
Vitaly Mlechin: Dmitry, hello, you are on the air, please speak.
Viewer: Hello, beloved country Russia, hello in the studio. You have already said so much that I have more additional comments. But I, in general, am against the compulsory study of native, national languages. They should, in my opinion, be exclusively optional.
Olga Artemenko: In no case.
Viewer: Of course, a highly qualified elective for those who really consider it appropriate. On the territory of Russia, the Russian language forms, in general, language is a way of thinking. The Russian language is a wonderful, beautiful language, and it is phonetics, grammar, vocabulary (and this is scientifically proven) that forms the worldview and the way of thinking about which I said, the worldview forms. And it is the Russian language that makes a Russian person, a Russian, Russian, this is the first circumstance.
Secondly, if in each region - and we have many regions, many peoples, this is also good - if they all start learning their native languages, then we will all share, this will create regional nationalist enclaves ...
Vitaly Mlechin: Yes, your point is clear, you are touching on a serious problem. Thanks a lot. Let's also Svetlana from Tatarstan ...
Oksana Galkevich: Somehow, it somehow turns out that all the time there is some kind of tilt in one direction: we either have interethnic friendship, let's teach optionally, or if you start teaching, then everything, damn it, the country will fall apart.
Svetlana from Tatarstan, hello.
Viewer: Yes, this question has been bothering me for a very long time. Who would argue that knowing an extra language is very useful and pleasant. I grew up in a Tatar-speaking family, I speak the Tatar language very well, and thank God. But to teach it the way we have been taught in Tatarstan so far, in general, forcibly Russian-speaking children as a second foreign language, this is how our children are taught this Tatar language, and there have always been even more of his hours than of the Russian language. But when our children enter universities, they enter on a common basis with other Russian regions, that is, the burden on children is huge, because for Russian-speaking children the Tatar language is foreign language, our whole family translated to my granddaughters, helped, dealt with this issue with the whole family. This is one side.
Well, if we leave it as we did in Tatarstan, then all Russian regions really need to - the Bryansk region, for some reason they all write that oh, you need to know national languages - let them, too, our dear Muscovites, study everything any national language that exists in Russia.
Vitaly Mlechin: What, for example?
Viewer: And then everyone will be on an equal footing, because there is a very big burden on children. Second moment...
Vitaly Mlechin: Thank you very much, Svetlana, just very little time.
Oksana Galkevich: Thank you.
Vitaly Mlechin: Let's see the plot is small after all, because we really have.
Oksana Galkevich: I would like to ask Batyr Aboevich a short question first: but in Ingushetia with methodological material, with schools, classes, how are things with the teaching of the Ingush language?
Batyr Bogatyrev: You know, sometimes you can come across such a banal, not very pleasant situation that the department is headed by a person who did not work at all in this area, in the Ministry of Education. I don’t have to look far for examples, the Minister of Education without a single hour of work in this area. This is, of course, an unfortunate fact. Accordingly, that is how things are.
That is, there were facts, I’m just not going to go into specifics now, that is, a whole batch of textbooks comes in, for example, on the same history of Ingushetia, and then a command arrives, somewhere someone saw something there, some impartial thing, some official, there is a recall of this entire party. And the educational process goes on, the period continues, and the children remain, so this program has not been completed for them, let's say, and then they have to make up for it all. I am very sorry for the children that such officials in our country mainly come across in the regions, unfortunately.
Oksana Galkevich: Order is missing in this system.
Batyr Bogatyrev: Yes, absolutely right.
Olga Artemenko: The fact is that the lack of a state language educational policy leads to this.
Batyr Bogatyrev: Quite right.
Olga Artemenko: I have been saying for many years that a section of strategies for the state national language education policy should be worked out in the state national policy.
Oksana Galkevich: Dear guests, let's see a short story that Vitaly is talking about. We asked our viewers, residents of different cities, what they think about this, whether it is necessary to study national languages in Russian schools. Let's get a look.
Oksana Galkevich: Well, these are the different opinions.
It's time for us to summarize the results of our survey, dear friends. At the very beginning, we asked our viewers what they think is it necessary to learn national languages in schools on a mandatory basis or optionally, if desired. Look how the opinions of our viewers are distributed, although I agree, Olga Ivanovna, there may be different interpretations here, maybe the wording is not always correct, but nevertheless the results are as follows: mandatory - 48%, optionally 52%.
I want to say that we had such a lively conversation during this hour, very emotional, we have a lot of messages on our SMS portal, calls, in general, were also expressive of the most different people with a variety of opinions. Nevertheless, I must thank you, Olga Ivanovna, for your opinion, for your position, thank you, Batyr Aboevich, for your opinion, your position, you suggested to me how in Ingush "thank you" - "barkala", thank you big. And a big thank you to all our viewers.
Olga Artemenko, head of the Center for Ethno-Cultural Strategy of Education of the Federal Institute for the Development of Education, corresponding member of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, and Batyr Aboevich Bogatyrev, deputy chairman of the Council of Teips of the Ingush people, were in the studio of the Reflection program today.
We are not saying goodbye yet, friends, we will return in a couple of minutes to this studio.
Artemenko Olga Ivanovna
Date of birth: 09/06/1952
Address of residence: Moscow, Sevastopolsky prospect, 58, apt. 107
Phone: mob. 89269323883
e-mail: [email protected]
Experience:
June 2006 to present time- Head of the Center for Ethnocultural Strategy in Education (former Center for National Educational Problems) of the Federal Institute for the Development of Education of the Ministry of Education and Science of the Russian Federation, Moscow.
October 1991 – June 2006– Academic Secretary, Deputy Director for Project and Program Activities, Deputy Director for Research of the Institute of National Problems of Education of the Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation, Moscow.
June 2013 – March 2014- head of legal department organizational work Municipality of Cheryomushki, Moscow.
The 5th class rank of a municipal employee was assigned;
Gratitude for fruitful work and creative contribution to the development of the municipality.
Education:
- 1971-1976, Moscow pedagogical institute them. N.K. Krupskaya, specialty "teacher of biology and chemistry".
- 1984-1985, Moscow State University. M.V. Lomonosov, specialty "Physiology of higher nervous activity man and animals."
Candidate of Biological Sciences, Associate Professor, Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences.
As a professor at the Higher School of Economics, she supervised the training of postgraduate students in the field of pedagogical sciences. Supervisor of 15 defended candidate's theses in the specialty 13.00.01 - general pedagogy.
As a corresponding member of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, I take part in the organization and holding of international scientific events and establish scientific contacts with organizations of the constituent entities of the Russian Federation.
The Concept of the National Educational Policy of the Russian Federation and the Plan for the Implementation of the Priority Directions (Order of the Ministry of Education and Science of Russia No. 201 dated August 3, 2006)
The concept of reforming the system of preschool, general education and training of personnel from among the indigenous peoples of the North (Order of the Government of the Russian Federation of 1998 No. ????)
Educational and methodological complexes, educational programs, teaching aids, including those with the stamp of the Educational and Methodological Association of Higher educational institutions RF. More than 300 scientific and educational works have been published, including 10 monographs. Author of textbooks on the Russian language for primary general education (passed through the 3rd edition and in 2014 included in the federal list of textbooks).
Social activity:
Member of the Commission on Education and Historical Enlightenment of the Council under the President of the Russian Federation for Interethnic Relations;
Member of the Expert Advisory Council at the Interdepartmental working group on issues of interethnic relations chaired by A.G. Khloponin;
Member of the Council for Interethnic Relations under the Government of Moscow.
Awards:
State - medal "In memory of the 850th anniversary of Moscow"
Departmental - Certificate of Honor of the Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation, badge "Excellent student public education”, badge “Honorary worker of the higher vocational education Russian Federation”, medal of K.D. Ushinsky.
Public - commemorative medal 120 years since the birth of Ismail Semenov, commemorative medal "300 years of Mikhail Vasilyevich Lomonosov", Golden medal"Friendship of peoples - the unity of Russia", the sign "Labor Valor of Russia" and "Mentor of Youth".
Mikhail Nikolaevich Kuzmin, Advisor to the Federal State Institution "Federal Institute for the Development of Education" on national problems of education. Corresponding member of the Russian Academy of Education. Chairman of the Scientific Council on National Problems of Education of the Department of Education and Culture of the Russian Academy of Education.Born on September 29, 1931 in Moscow.
Historian by education - in 1954 he graduated from the Faculty of History of Moscow State University. M.V. Lomonosov - worked as a history teacher in the city of Polotsk, Byelorussian SSR. In 1958, he completed his postgraduate studies at the Institute of Slavic Studies of the USSR Academy of Sciences and until 1991. worked as researcher, head of the laboratory, head of the sector, head of the department in academic institutions: at the Institute of General Pedagogics of the Academy of Pedagogical Sciences of the USSR and in Institute of Slavic and Balkan studies of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR.
Scope of it scientific interests Keywords: history, methodology and theory of pedagogy, national problems of educational policy, historical anthropology.
Scientific and creative activity of M.N. Kuzmina is noted:
K.D. Ushinsky Presidium of the Academy of Pedagogical Sciences of the USSR for the book "School and Education in Czechoslovakia" (M, Nauka, 1971),
medal of Ya.A. Comenius Government of Czechoslovakia for a series of works devoted to the scientific heritage of Ya.A. Comenius,
Josef Medal of the Presidium of the Czechoslovak Academy of Sciences for his contribution to Russian-Czechoslovak scientific cooperation.From 1991 to 2005 M.N. Kuzmin heads the Federal government agency"Institute of National Problems of Education" of the Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation.
Under the leadership and with the direct participation of M.N. Kuzmin, the development of documents of national importance was carried out:
Concept " national school: goals and priorities of the content of education" , reviewed and approved by the collegium of the Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation on February 9, 1995,
"The concept of reforming the system of preschool, general education and training of personnel from among the indigenous peoples of the North", developed on the basis of the action plan for the implementation of the Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation of December 31, 1997 No. 1664 and the order of the Ministry of Education of Russia and the State Committee for the North of Russia dated May 25, 1998 No. 1331/29,
"The concept of the national educational policy of the Russian Federation", reviewed and approved by the Board of the Ministry of Education and Science of Russia on December 1, 2004, approved by order of the Ministry of Education and Science of Russia dated August 3, 2006 No. 201.>>
He is a finalist of the "Antibooker" competition in 2000 in the "Other Prose" nomination for a book of memoirs about his father - People's Artist of Russia, Corresponding Member of the USSR Academy of Arts Kuzmin Nikolai Vasilievich (1890 - 1987) - "In a dream I saw Pushkin .. ." A.S. Pushkin in drawings and essays by N.V. Kuzmina" (M, 1999).
Olga Ivanovna Artemenko, Head of the Institute, Candidate of Biological Sciences, Associate Professor
Artemenko Olga Ivanovna, born September 6, 1952.
In 1976 she graduated from the Faculty of Biology of the Moscow Regional Pedagogical Institute. N.K. Krupskaya, worked as a biology teacher at a Moscow school. M.V. Lomonosov at the Department of Higher Nervous Activity.
In 1989 she completed her postgraduate studies and defended her Ph.D. thesis in developmental psychophysiology at the Institute of Physiology and Hygiene of Children and Adolescents of the USSR Academy of Pedagogical Sciences. From 1990 to 2005 worked as an assistant professor at Moscow universities, deputy director for research at the Institute of Developmental Physiology of the Russian Academy of Education and at the Institute of National Educational Problems of the Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation.
The scope of her scientific interests: psychophysiology of children of the indigenous peoples of the North, national educational policy.
He has more than 150 scientific publications.
Is a co-author "Concepts for reforming the system of preschool, general education and training of personnel from among the indigenous peoples of the North" (M.: INPO, - 2001. P. 80), developed in accordance with the action plan for the implementation of the Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation of December 31, 1997. No. 1664. Author of the article "People's Education" included in the edition "Northern Encyclopedia" (M.: European editions, 2004. - S. 605-607).
The main works on the problems of education in educational institutions of the Far North:
Comprehensive pedagogical and psychological-hygienic assessment of the quality of knowledge and the state of health of students in grades I and X of schools northern regions Russian Federation. Guidelines to monitor the progress and results of the experiment to improve the structure and content of general education. M.: INPO, 2001. - 132 p.
Maintaining health and improving the quality of education in educational institutions of the northern regions of Russia. M.: INPO, 2002. - 216 p.
Education in the North: history, theory, practice. M.: INPO, 2004.- 202 p.
Culture and education of the indigenous peoples of the North. M.: INPO, 2007. - 192 p.
Main works on national educational policy:
- A person of civil society as the goal of education in a multi-ethnic Russian society. Zh. "Questions of Philosophy", No. 6, 2006 - 40-52 p. (Co-authored with M.N. Kuzmin).
- Polyethnicity of Russia: State educational and language policy. Thematic supplement to the journal "Bulletin of Education" No. 2, ed. "Enlightenment", 2008, p. 4-54.
- Russia: the formation of a person of civil society in a multi-ethnic society (historical-socio-cultural aspect). Section II of the monograph “The Problem of Identity in the Transforming Russian Society and the School. M.: INPO, 2008. - 176 p. (Co-authored with M.N. Kuzmin).
Author of a series of Russian language textbooks for elementary school teaching in the native (non-Russian) and Russian (non-native) languages, recommended by the Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation for use in educational process schools for the peoples of the Turkic language group.
Awarded with distinctions in the field of education and science: "Excellent student public education» - 1993, medal "K.D. Ushinsky - 1998, "Honorary Worker of Higher Professional Education of the Russian Federation" - 2002
Since 1995, Deputy Chairman of the Scientific Council on National Problems of Education of the Department of Education and Culture of the Russian Academy of Education. Since 2002 Associate Professor, Department of Psychophysiology, Faculty of Psychology State University « graduate School economy".
From 2005 to the present, he has been a leading expert of the National (expert) Council for the development of small and medium-sized businesses, a member of the working group of the public movement "Education for All".
Academic degree: candidate of biological sciences
Academic title: assistant professor
participant of the encyclopedia "Famous Scientists"
Artemenko Olga Ivanovna was born on 06.09.1952 in Belaya-Tserkov, Kyiv region.
In 1976 she graduated from the Moscow Regional Pedagogical Institute. N.K. Krupskaya, Faculty of Biology, specialty teacher of biology and chemistry; 1984 - Moscow State University. M.V. Lomonosov, specialty physiology of higher nervous activity of humans and animals; 1989 - postgraduate studies at the Research Institute of Physiology of Children and Adolescents of the Academy of Pedagogical Sciences of the USSR; 1990 - defended her thesis "Systemic organization of the bioelectrical activity of the brain in children with different volume short term memory” (Psychophysiology); 1998 - Associate Professor; 2014 – corresponding member RANS in the section "Geopolitics and Security".
The main place of work is the Federal State Institution for the Development of Education of the Ministry of Education and Science of Russia, head of the Center for Ethnocultural Education Strategy. Field of activity: scientific support for the implementation of educational policy in terms of maintaining interethnic harmony, strengthening the spiritual consolidation of the multinational people of Russia as a single civil nation, preventing separatism, extremism, xenophobia.
Other activities: Member of the Commission on Education and Historical Enlightenment of the Council under the President of the Russian Federation on Interethnic Relations, Head of the Section on Improving Legislation in the Field of Language Policy of the Expert Council of the State Duma Committee on Nationalities, Member of the Expert Advisory Council under the Interdepartmental Working Group on Interethnic Relations under the chairmanship of A. G. Khloponin, chairman of the trade union organization of the Federal Institute for the Development of Education, member of the editorial board of the journal "Russian Language in the National School".
Scientific achievements: The Concept of the National Educational Policy of the Russian Federation was developed (Approved by the Order of the Ministry of Education and Science of Russia dated 03.08.06 No. 201), the Plan for the Implementation of the Priority Directions of the National Educational Policy in the System of General Education in the Conditions of Its Modernization for 2004-2010 (Approved by the Order of the Ministry of Education and Science of Russia dated 03.08.06 03.08.06 No. 201). A draft Federal Law “On Amendments and Additions to the Law of the Russian Federation “On the Languages of the Peoples of the Russian Federation” (292430-6) has been prepared
Under scientific guidance, five candidate's theses were prepared and defended in the specialty "General Pedagogy"; Published over 200 scientific works, incl. in VAK magazines, more than 20 teaching aids, author of a series of Russian language textbooks for schools with Bashkir language education for children of migrants included in the federal list of textbooks; monographs: "Culture and Education of the Indigenous Minorities of the North" (2007), "Polyethnicity of Russia: State Educational and Language Policy" (2008), "Philological Education at the Initial Stage of Education in a Bilingual educational environment” (2009); author of articles on the history of education in the Northern Encyclopedia (2004); author of articles on the national educational policy of the Russian Federation in the journals "Bulletin of the Russian Nation" (2009, 2011, 2012), "Eurasian Legal Journal" (2010, 2011, 2014), "Science and School" (2015)
Awards: badge "Excellence in public education" (1996), medal "In memory of the 850th anniversary of Moscow" (1997), medal K.D. Ushinsky (2000), badge "Honorary Worker of Higher Professional Education of the Russian Federation" (2002), gratitude for fruitful work and creative contribution to the development of the municipality (2013), certificate of honor Ministry of Education of the Russian Federation (2002), commemorative medal "120 years since the birth of Ismail Semenov" (2011), commemorative medal "300 years of Mikhail Vasilievich Lomonosov" (2011), gold medal "Friendship of Peoples - Unity of Russia" (2012), badge „Labor prowess of Russia” (2015);
Scientific publications:
Publications:
Artemenko OI State educational policy as a factor in the development of civil society in Russia. / Bulletin of the Russian nation. 2011 No. 4-5. pp. 45-69.
Artemenko O.I. The languages of the peoples of Russia and the possible consequences of the ratification of the European Charter for Regional Languages. / Bulletin of the Russian nation. 2011 No. 6. P.73-99.
Artemenko O.I. et al. The status and support of linguistic diversity in the Russian Federation: a summary of the report. / Sat. European Charter of Regional and Minority Languages in the Russian Federation. M. 2012. S. 34-38.
Artemenko O.I. State language policy of the Russian Federation: state and prospects. / Materials of the "round table" November 28, 2013. From GD. M. 2014. P.5-8.
Artemenko O.I. Modern multiculturalism, the role of the Russian language in strengthening Russian civic identity. / Eurasian legal journal. 2014 No. 4 (71). pp. 193-196.
Artemenko O.I. Current state languages from among the languages of the peoples of Russia in the conditions of school education in the context of the state national policy. / Bulletin of the Institute for the Development of Education of the Chechen Republic. Issue 14. 2015. S. 20-31.
Artemenko O.I. State and languages of the peoples of Russia in modern school. Science and school. 2015 No. 1. S. 150-159.